Re: [sv-bc] [Fwd: Issues with IEEE 1364-2005]

See http://www.eda-stds.org/sv-ac/hm/2501.html .

-- Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sv-bc@eda-stds.org [mailto:owner-sv-bc@eda-stds.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Pierce
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:20 AM
To: sv-bc@eda-stds.org
Cc: michael.burns@freescale.com; WADAMS@freescale.com
Subject: [sv-bc] [Fwd: Issues with IEEE 1364-2005] 

-----Non-member submission-----

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:19:24 -0700
From: Michael Burns <michael.burns@freescale.com>
CC: William Adams <WADAMS@freescale.com>

Hi folks,

A comment on precedence definitions in Verilog from one of our
engineers.

--Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Issues with IEEE 1364-2005
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:34:24 -0500
From: Will Adams <wadams@freescale.com>
To: Michael Burns <michael.burns@freescale.com>

There is a misstatement in the IEEE 1364-2005 standard, which has been
there for a while (it was in 1364-2001, and perhaps in earlier
versions of the Standard). Do you know how to get it fixed?

The error is in section 5.1.2 `Operator precedence'. There it states

   All operators shall associate left to right with the exception of the
   conditional operator, which shall associate right to left.
   Associativity refers to the order in which the operators having the
   same precedence are evaluated.

This is wrong. It does not make a lot of sense to talk about `the order
in which operators ... are evaluated', since I do not think this is
well-defined in all circumstances (see below). What can be defined is
the order of _operand_ evaluation.

This clause confuses associativity, which concerns the parsing of
expressions that are not fully parenthesized, with evaluation order. I
think what this may be getting at is that if `a + b + c' is parsed as
`(a + b) + c', then the LH `+' operator is evaluated before the RH `+'
operator, since subexpression must be evaluated before a containing
expression. This definition fails to adequately describe the intended
evaluation of the conditional operator, which associates right-to-left,
but whose operands are evaluated left-to-right.

The right-to-left associativity of the conditional operator means that
the expression

   a ? b : c ? d : e

is parsed as

   a ? b : ( c ? d : e )

and not as

   ( a ? b : c ) ? d : e

This is the same as in C, and allows the writing of `if ... else if ...
else ...' constructs using the conditional operator without excessive
parentheses.

However, the conditional operator is evaluated left-to-right. First the
condition is evaluated, and then one or both branches is evaluated.

To see that the order of _operator_ evaluation is not always well
defined, consider the evaluation of this expression. Operand `a' (which
is an operand of the LH `?:' operator) is evaluated first. If `a' is 1,
then the RH `?:' operator is not evaluated; if `a' is 0, then the `else'
expression (ie, `c ? d : e') is evaluated, and its value is the value of
the whole expression (ie, of the LH `?:' operator); and if `a' is X or
Z, then the RH `?:' is evaluated, and its result is combined bitwise
with the result of evaluating `b' to yield the overall result of the
whole expression. So, in cases where the RH `?:' operator is evaluated,
the evaluation of the LH `?:' operator begins before, and ends after,
the evaluation of the RH `?:' operator. So what is the operator
evaluation order?

I have seen similar mistakes in several C++ textbooks. As far as I can
tell, it is necessary to have three concepts to clearly define how
expressions are parsed and evaluated: precedence, associativity, and
operand evaluation order. The first two together allow the construction
of a unique parse tree for any expression, and the third then mandates
how this parse tree is to be evaluated.

For most operators, there should be no operand evaluation order. For the
expression `a + b', an implementor should be free to evaluate `a' first,
`b' first, or both simultaneously, and they should be free to choose a
different order each time the expression is evaluated, if it suits them
to do so. The operand evaluation order only really needs to be defined
when the result of evaluating one operand affects how the remaining
operands are evaluated (the only exception to this I can think of is the
`,' sequencing operator in C).

On a related issue, Section 5.1.9 `Logical operators' does not state if
`&&' and `||' are evaluated in a short-circuit fashion, as they are in
C. That is, for the C expression `a && b', `a' is evaluated first, and,
if it is 0, `b' is not evaluated, since the value of the expression is 0
regardless of the value of `b'. If this is not the case, then different
coding idioms are required. In C, to test if integer pointer `p' is
non-null, and points to a positive value, we write `p != 0 && *p > 0'.
This never leads to segfault, since `p' is not dereferenced if it is
null. An equivalent expression in SystemVerilog,
`p != null && p->data > 0' will cause a null object access error if both
operands are evaluated when `p' is null.

Keeping the concepts of associativity and evaluation order separate
allows for a clearer statement of the requirements. We can distinguish
`&&', which associates left-to-right, and whose operands (I am assuming)
are evaluated left-to-right, from `+', which associates left-to-right,
but has no required evaluation order. Operator `?:' associates
right-to-left, and evaluates left-to-right.

I appreciate that these are minor issues, but I think the Standard
should be fixed to precisely define the requirements on implementors.

will