RE: [sv-bc] extern modules

I added this to Mantis 1469.

Shalom 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gordon Vreugdenhil [mailto:gordonv@model.com] 
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:25 PM
> To: Jason Campbell
> Cc: Bresticker, Shalom; 'Adam Krolnik'; 'sv-bc'
> Subject: Re: [sv-bc] extern modules
> 
> 
> I'd be in favor of that; even if that doesn't achieve 
> consensus, I'd like to see an explicit restriction of "extern 
> before .* in the declaration".
> 
> Gord.
> 
> Jason Campbell wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > How about removing the usage of .* from the LRM? It doesn't 
> seem like 
> > a useful capability.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Jason
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* owner-sv-bc@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-bc@eda.org] 
> *On Behalf Of 
> > *Bresticker, Shalom
> > *Sent:* Monday, July 14, 2008 9:50 AM
> > *To:* Adam Krolnik; Gordon Vreugdenhil
> > *Cc:* sv-bc
> > *Subject:* RE: [sv-bc] extern modules
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Adam,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > No one is arguing about that.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > The problem is that the LRM says that if you have an extern module 
> > declaration, then the real module declaration can use .* instead of 
> > re-listing the module ports there. My question is, what is 
> that good for?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Shalom
> > 
> >      
> > 
> >     
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > 
> >     *From:* Adam Krolnik [mailto:adam.krolnik@verisilicon.com]
> >     *Sent:* Monday, July 14, 2008 5:47 PM
> >     *To:* Gordon Vreugdenhil
> >     *Cc:* Bresticker, Shalom; sv-bc
> >     *Subject:* Re: [sv-bc] extern modules
> > 
> > 
> >     Good morning;
> > 
> >     I though external declarations were needed for 
> systhesis tools to be
> >     able to work with .* in instantiations. E.g. you read 
> in the external
> >     declaration of the module before it is instantiated with .*.
> >     Unfortunately, this then requires people to know what 
> files to read
> >     first, or
> >     a suffix to specify them first.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >     Gordon Vreugdenhil wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >     Shalom, the restriction only applies when you are
> >     using .* in the *declaration* of the module in which
> >     case .* means "pick up the formals that were defined by the
> >     extern".  The .* use isn't related to an instantiation
> >     of the module (for which the existence of an extern is
> >     immaterial anyway).
> > 
> >     Extern modules are a bit of an odd feature in SV -- you
> >     don't need them to instantiate a separately compiled
> >     module, nor to use .* in an instantiation.  The only
> >     advantage is for systems that might not want to inhale
> >     the whole world (synthesis perhaps) or for earlier checking
> >     of port width/type constraints.  Neither of those aspects
> >     are directly related to LRM requirements.
> > 
> >     Gord
> > 
> >     Bresticker, Shalom wrote:
> > 
> >     Then how do you do separate compilation?
> >     And if they're compiled together, what do you need it for?
> > 
> >     Shalom
> > 
> >           _____________________________________________
> >           *From:  * Bresticker, Shalom       *Sent:  * 
> Monday, July 14,
> >     2008 12:18 PM
> >           *To:    * Bresticker, Shalom
> >           *Subject:       * Re: [sv-bc] extern modules
> > 
> >           /From: Gordon Vreugdenhil <//_gordonv_at_....._/
> >          
> >     
> <mailto:gordonv_at_.....?Subject=Re:%20[sv-bc]%20extern%20modules>
> >     
> > 
> <mailto:gordonv_at_.....?Subject=Re:%20%5bsv-bc%5d%20extern%20modules>
> > />
> > 
> >           Date: Thu Jul 10 2008 - 12:37:24 PDT/
> >           Jason,
> > 
> >           I agree that with .*, the extern really needs to 
> come first.
> >           Since externs are a way of declaring the "type" 
> of the module
> >           and .* is similar to a dependence on that type, I 
> don't really
> >           see that restriction as being much of a reach either in
> >           practice or as a matter of LRM interpretation.
> > 
> >           Gord.
> > 
> > 
> >           Jason Campbell wrote:
> >            > Hi,
> >            >
> >            >        >
> >            > The LRM doesn't specify if extern can be used 
> subsequent to
> >     the
> >           module
> >            > defintion. Is it
> >            >
> >            > correct to assume that this is permitted? 
> Maybe this can be
> >           clarified in
> >            > the LRM.
> >            >
> >            >        >
> >            > If so, this makes implementation of .* in the 
> module port list
> >           quite
> >            > difficult. The reason is
> >            >
> >            > that nets and variables can not be checked for 
> correct usage
> >           until the
> >            > extern is compiled.
> > 
> >     
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     Intel Israel (74) Limited
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> > 
> >     --
> > 
> >         Soli Deo Gloria
> > 
> >         Adam Krolnik
> > 
> >         Director of Design Verification
> > 
> >         VeriSilicon Inc.
> > 
> >         Plano TX. 75074
> > 
> >         Co-author "Assertion-Based Design", "Creating 
> Assertion-Based IP"
> > 
> > 
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> > Intel Israel (74) Limited
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> Gordon Vreugdenhil                                503-685-0808
> Model Technology (Mentor Graphics)                gordonv@model.com
> 
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