RE: [sv-bc] function task calling

I'll answer my own question: No, there is no need to change anything in
those Manti.

Shalom 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sv-bc@server.eda.org 
> [mailto:owner-sv-bc@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Bresticker, Shalom
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:11 AM
> To: Rich, Dave; sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org
> Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> 
> What about the contents of Manti 1336 and 1615?
> 
> Shalom 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rich, Dave [mailto:Dave_Rich@mentor.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 7:07 AM
> > To: Bresticker, Shalom; Steven Sharp; sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org; 
> > Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > 
> > No it does not. the BNF uses system_tf_identifier generically, and 
> > individual system routines are not in the BNF.
> > 
> > Dave
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bresticker, Shalom [mailto:shalom.bresticker@intel.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 8:59 PM
> > > To: Rich, Dave; Steven Sharp; sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org; 
> > > Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > > 
> > > So:
> > > 
> > > Does this require a change in the BNF?
> > > 
> > > Shalom
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Rich, Dave [mailto:Dave_Rich@mentor.com]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:41 PM
> > > > To: Bresticker, Shalom; Steven Sharp; 
> sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org; 
> > > > Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > > >
> > > > You and I have too long a history with Verilog. The only
> > reason we
> > > > call system tasks "tasks" is because there were no void
> > function in
> > > > Verilog.
> > > > And the Verilog LRM never made an exception for system
> > that could be
> > > > called by a function. Now that we do have void 
> functions, this is 
> > > > the natural way to describe a routine that is guaranteed not to 
> > > > block as well as having no return value.
> > > >
> > > > Also, there is no longer a reason to have routines that can 
> > > > sometimes be called as a task, as sometimes called as a 
> function.
> > > > They should always be defined as functions that return a value, 
> > > > which may be discarded.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Bresticker, Shalom [mailto:shalom.bresticker@intel.com]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 8:53 AM
> > > > > To: Rich, Dave; Steven Sharp; sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org; 
> > > > > Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > > > >
> > > > > That is beginning to sound like a patch on top of a patch.
> > > > >
> > > > > Shalom
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Rich, Dave [mailto:Dave_Rich@mentor.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:51 PM
> > > > > > To: Bresticker, Shalom; Steven Sharp;
> > sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org;
> > > > > > Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's easy to deal with. They are still system functions.
> > > > > > It's just that they can be implicitly cast to a void return
> > type.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Bresticker, Shalom
> > [mailto:shalom.bresticker@intel.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 8:45 AM
> > > > > > > To: Rich, Dave; Steven Sharp; sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org; 
> > > > > > > Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Although today there may be no system tasks which
> > delay, there
> > > > could
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > in the future.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Note that we already have one system task, $cast, which
> > > > > > when called as
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > function, is not of type void. We also decided 
> that $system
> > > > > > would work
> > > > > > > that way. And in 1364-2001, $sformat was described that
> > > > way also.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Shalom
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: owner-sv-bc@server.eda.org 
> > > > > > > > [mailto:owner-sv-bc@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of
> > Rich, Dave
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:52 AM
> > > > > > > > To: Steven Sharp; sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org;
> > > > > > Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think renaming system tasks to system functions is
> > > > > > something that
> > > > > > > > will have to eventually happen as a result of the merge.
> > > > > > Any method
> > > > > > > > that guarantees it will not consume time should be
> > > > defined as a
> > > > > > > > function, void or otherwise. In the end it will be a
> > > > lot clearer
> > > > > > > > that way.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But there are 368 occurrences of 'system task' in the
> > > > > > LRM. I think
> > > > > > > > it should wait for the next draft, unless 
> someone has the
> > > > > > energy to
> > > > > > > > take this on in the next two months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Dave
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: owner-sv-bc@server.eda.org
> > > > > > [mailto:owner-sv-bc@server.eda.org]
> > > > > > > > On
> > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Steven Sharp
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 8:25 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: sv-bc@server.eda-stds.org; 
> Brad.Pierce@synopsys.com
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [sv-bc] function task calling
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Could we add text saying that a system task is a
> > > > void system
> > > > > > > > function?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It doesn't sound like you are suggesting that 
> we replace
> > > > > > > > "system task"
> > > > > > > > > with "void system function" everywhere, which would be
> > > > > > > > daunting.  It
> > > > > > > > > sounds like you are suggesting a single 
> statement saying
> > > > > > > > that system
> > > > > > > > > tasks can be regarded as void system functions.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If this only affects the legality of calling them from
> > > > > > > > functions, then
> > > > > > > > > you would presumably want the statement to 
> appear in the
> > > > > > > > section that
> > > > > > > > > says what is legal in a function.  Something
> > like "System
> > > > tasks
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > treated as if they are void system functions for this
> > > > purpose."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That seems to me like a roundabout way of
> > saying what you
> > > > > > > > mean, which
> > > > > > > > > is "System tasks can be called from functions."
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It sounds like you want the text to provide the
> > rationale
> > > > > > > > for the rule
> > > > > > > > > in addition to the rule itself.  I don't have 
> a problem
> > > > > > > > with that, as
> > > > > > > > > it makes the rules easier to understand and 
> extrapolate
> > > > > > from.  But
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > concerned that saying "system tasks are actually void
> > system
> > > > > > > > functions"
> > > > > > > > > will lead readers to believe that this means something
> > > > > > more than
> > > > > > > > > "system tasks can be called from functions".  
> This could
> > > > > > > > confuse them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Steven Sharp
> > > > > > > > > sharp@cadence.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > >
> > 
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